When can Victorians expect to go fishing again?

[DougieK]

[Sinsemilla]

Dougie why are you so fixated on whats going on in the US? There has been reports of fudging numbers and nurses coming out that each covid death means they get funding from the Gov. so it makes sense to say people have died from covid even though they haven't. Australia also is very different to the US. Our population per square kilometer is way less and a population density is nowhere nears theirs.

Even if their figures are true i don't think we should be comparing ourselves to them. We should be concentrating and talking about what's going on here and by our figures and what i've seen with my own eyes (actual people i know who have had the virus) we probably could ease restrictions which will save a lot of aussie households and business's not to mention lives from suicide without much of a spike in covid case's.

[DougieK]

Dougie why are you so fixated on whats going on in the US? There has been reports of fudging numbers and nurses coming out that each covid death means they get funding from the Gov. so it makes sense to say people have died from covid even though they haven't. Australia also is very different to the US. Our population per square kilometer is way less and a population density is nowhere nears theirs.

Even if their figures are true i don't think we should be comparing ourselves to them. We should be concentrating and talking about what's going on here and by our figures and what i've seen with my own eyes (actual people i know who have had the virus) we probably could ease restrictions which will save a lot of aussie households and business's not to mention lives from suicide without much of a spike in covid case's.

My vendetta is against the spread of misinformation. If you're going to make a claim, i'm going to fact check it and post a response based on the best peer reviewed evidence available, failing that do my best to assess the statistics from a non-partisan point of view and provide an opinion based on things that are actually happening.

This guy loves misinformation and making claims that have no factual, scientific, statistical or logical basis. I am going to debunk every single piece of garbage that politically tribalised morons feel the need to post on here. The real enemy is anti-intellectualism and the spread of misinformation for political and financial gain>

I use the USA as an example because 100 pages of nonsense ago 'someone' made the claim that Trump was doing a good job and the USA got it right and we don't need a lockdown and it's all a state government conspiracy to do 'something' which i'm still unclear on what that something is.

We did the population density argument, thank you for bringing that up. If we were to look at the biggest cities in the USA and Australia combined, It would be Melbourne and Sydney would be in the top 4 with New York and LA. The USA has a lot of cities, but a massive proportion of our population is concentrated in a couple of not really that big spaces. There was a statistical analysis of population densities in one of these threads where someone started talking about something they had no idea about, i'm not going to dig it all back out, but Melbourne and Sydney account for about 1/3 of the Australian population and are actually quite dense by comparison.

[purple5ive]

He is on a forced vacation dude, I wouldn't waste my time on his posts for now.

[Sinsemilla]

Dougie why are you so fixated on whats going on in the US? There has been reports of fudging numbers and nurses coming out that each covid death means they get funding from the Gov. so it makes sense to say people have died from covid even though they haven't. Australia also is very different to the US. Our population per square kilometer is way less and a population density is nowhere nears theirs.

Even if their figures are true i don't think we should be comparing ourselves to them. We should be concentrating and talking about what's going on here and by our figures and what i've seen with my own eyes (actual people i know who have had the virus) we probably could ease restrictions which will save a lot of aussie households and business's not to mention lives from suicide without much of a spike in covid case's.

My vendetta is against the spread of misinformation. If you're going to make a claim, i'm going to fact check it and post a response based on the best peer reviewed evidence available, failing that do my best to assess the statistics from a non-partisan point of view and provide an opinion based on things that are actually happening.

This guy loves misinformation and making claims that have no factual, scientific, statistical or logical basis. I am going to debunk every single piece of garbage that politically tribalised morons feel the need to post on here. The real enemy is anti-intellectualism and the spread of misinformation for political and financial gain>

I use the USA as an example because 100 pages of nonsense ago 'someone' made the claim that Trump was doing a good job and the USA got it right and we don't need a lockdown and it's all a state government conspiracy to do 'something' which i'm still unclear on what that something is.

We did the population density argument, thank you for bringing that up. If we were to look at the biggest cities in the USA and Australia combined, It would be Melbourne and Sydney would be in the top 4 with New York and LA. The USA has a lot of cities, but a massive proportion of our population is concentrated in a couple of not really that big spaces. There was a statistical analysis of population densities in one of these threads where someone started talking about something they had no idea about, i'm not going to dig it all back out, but Melbourne and Sydney account for about 1/3 of the Australian population and are actually quite dense by comparison.

I agree with you with the whole spread of misinformation but the figures you are citing may not be true either.. I don't think it's worth getting into heated arguments about something you could both be wrong about.

Our cities are dense but not in comparison to NY or cities in italy. They have people living on top of each other all going to small shopping centers. Our cities are much more spread out with a lot of bigger shopping centers and also smaller places we can go. We also have things like shopping that's home delivered.. only a couple k's out of the center of the city you get houses or town houses on blocks at least 200m squared in size and then a few more k's out we are on 400-500m squared blocks. This isn't the case overseas.

I just think it's pointless having these heated arguments when we should be looking at what's actually going on here.

[DougieK]

I agree with you with the whole spread of misinformation but the figures you are citing may not be true either.. I don't think it's worth getting into heated arguments about something you could both be wrong about.

Every figure I quote is from an official source. I am absolutely adamant that a lot of the official sources are being manipulated for political or financial gain, however at the moment it's the best source of information I have.

[Sinsemilla]

I agree with you with the whole spread of misinformation but the figures you are citing may not be true either.. I don't think it's worth getting into heated arguments about something you could both be wrong about.

Every figure I quote is from an official source. I am absolutely adamant that a lot of the official sources are being manipulated for political or financial gain, however at the moment it's the best source of information I have.

I know you have and you've been very precise in your analysis of them. Knowing that they may have been manipulated for political or financial gain though means we don't really know what the hell is going on and therefore i think we shouldn't be getting so heated and should be taking everything we are told with a grain of salt.

[4liters]

I just think it's pointless having these heated arguments when we should be looking at what's actually going on here.

What is going on in the US is what will happen here if the virus is allowed to get out of hand. It's a really good illustration of why the lockdowns have been worth the sacrifice. We are fairly similar to the US, densely populated cities, large suburban areas and sparsely populated rural areas. Nowhere is being spared from this in the US, every county has now reported cases of Covid-19.

It will soon be a good example of why ending lockdowns while there's still active cases in the community is a bad idea too.

Not everybody can build a scientific level of knowledge on a given topic (most of us would not have time), but education, literacy, cutting edge science etc have never been more accessible in human history. It used to be that you needed to have access to a university library to get the kind of detailed information we have at our fingertips today. Personally I find it really frustrating that some people take it for granted and either reject good science because it doesn't fit their political views or just straight out making stuff up. It's even more frustrating that rather than profess honest ignorance of a topic (and there's nothing wrong with that), people will watch some 10 minute YouTube video from some random blogger and then proclaim to be an expert.

It used to not really matter but now we've got a couple of significant threats to our lives and society, and addressing them really does depend on people right across society accepting objective facts for what they are, and acting accordingly.

In light of that, here is an interesting podcast by actual virologists studying the virus: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 88146FAD78
They have guests on fairly regularly, I listened to one the other day where they were talking to a senior doctor in one of the big hospitals in the US, talking about some drug trials that had recently been announced.

[Sinsemilla]

I just think it's pointless having these heated arguments when we should be looking at what's actually going on here.

What is going on in the US is what will happen here if the virus is allowed to get out of hand. It's a really good illustration of why the lockdowns have been worth the sacrifice. We are fairly similar to the US, densely populated cities, large suburban areas and sparsely populated rural areas. Nowhere is being spared from this in the US, every county has now reported cases of Covid-19.

It will soon be a good example of why ending lockdowns while there's still active cases in the community is a bad idea too.

Not everybody can build a scientific level of knowledge on a given topic (most of us would not have time), but education, literacy, cutting edge science etc have never been more accessible in human history. It used to be that you needed to have access to a university library to get the kind of detailed information we have at our fingertips today. Personally I find it really frustrating that some people take it for granted and either reject good science because it doesn't fit their political views or just straight out making stuff up. It's even more frustrating that rather than profess honest ignorance of a topic (and there's nothing wrong with that), people will watch some 10 minute YouTube video from some random blogger and then proclaim to be an expert.

It used to not really matter but now we've got a couple of significant threats to our lives and society, and addressing them really does depend on people right across society accepting objective facts for what they are, and acting accordingly.

In light of that, here is an interesting podcast by actual virologists studying the virus: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 88146FAD78
They have guests on fairly regularly, I listened to one the other day where they were talking to a senior doctor in one of the big hospitals in the US, talking about some drug trials that had recently been announced.

I agree with you on mostly everything you've said but we just don't know for sure if these numbers or 100% true.. I know it's dangerous to just disregard them and i am in no way saying to do this. Aus has done a great job and i think social distancing and hygiene should be continued but we need to think about mental health, small households and small businesses as well.

Oh man and on what you said "people will watch some 10 minute YouTube video from some random blogger and then proclaim to be an expert" this is my pet hate..

[mazman]