Ethical fishing?

[Lecterfan]

Hello all,

Once again I'd like to say how impressed I've been with this forum - I've done a lot of searching and reading of old and new posts and in general the level of respect etc. is outstanding for an internet forum.

With that in mind, there is an issue I'd like to raise, purely out of interest. (I chose this sub-forum as it is not 'off topic' but is not a technical fishing issue - Mods can/will move the thread if they feel they need to).

When looking through older threads, quite often someone will post a picture or report of what they have caught, and someone in the replies will question the necessity/morality of the number of fish that were kept. In some threads the catch will be defended as being 'legal' even thought it is large/at the upper limit.

As a rare species myself - a professional philosopher - I find this tension really interesting and am wondering if people wanted to share their ideas on it?


Here are some questions:

1. Is the legal limit something you think is ethically justifiable or do you keep fewer fish than you are permitted to out of your own sense of 'rightness'?

2. Would you support more closed seasons and MAXIMUM size limits (as found in WA for e.g.) and tighter overall regulations if it meant that you would consistently catch more/better fish (I'm not saying it does or doesn't, but my experiences over there changed my views on fishing forever)?


I have heaps more, but this is a good start for me. If you want to talk around/about issues of catch and release vs. swift catch and kill for food or whatever else, please do…

I promise you I'm not doing any bullish*t market research or whatever, I just love thinking about these sorts of problems and I love fishing. I am currently teaching a unit called 'practical ethics' and want to dedicate a couple of weeks to the idea that we, as individuals in a free state, have the 'right' to hunt and fish for food (I am a rare exception - a philosopher who hunts and fishes etc etc)…but I'm just generally interested (after a few beers) what the people on this site might have to offer in terms of wisdom and insight (or any other thoughts in between haha)…go your hardest! :Bar:

[Lecterfan]

…also I watched a youtube clip of a dude doing some beach-based shark-fishing in NSW and someone in the comments section bagged him out for being so under-gunned (and apparently lots do it); he basically lost 300m of braid plus the trace and hooks to the ocean (as the shark spooled him effortlessly) and apparently this is common. I can't say I'm keen on contributing to hundreds of metres of braid into the ocean…and I love my land based shark/game fishing, but always fish a bit over-gunned so to speak.

Plus I should mention the disgust that I've had since being back in the game and going to places like Portarlington pier/breakwater and the amount of rubbish tucked in the rocks. Disgraceful. Does this hobby really attract that many inconsiderate, mindless slobs? I'd like to think we are mostly environmentally aware, switched on stakeholders...

[bowl]

yeah unfortunately fishing attracts all sorts , from fisho's who will bring a extra bag while fishing to clean up after people who leave rubbish behind.
TO 40 plus year old adults who know bag limits and sizes , yet hide undersize fish in their vans.

From what i have seen i would think it would be 50/50 to how may are environmentally aware.
But like any sport or hobby u get the good with the bad.

[drew 2]

:gone: + :dinner: & :Bar: =

[cheaterparts]

…
1. Is the legal limit something you think is ethically justifiable or do you keep fewer fish than you are permitted to out of your own sense of 'rightness'?

2. Would you support more closed seasons and MAXIMUM size limits (as found in WA for e.g.) and tighter overall regulations if it meant that you would consistently catch more/better fish (I'm not saying it does or doesn't, but my experiences over there changed my views on fishing forever)?

1/ I normaly keep less that my bag limits and it has nothing to do with a sence of rightness
the fact is I dont as a rule freeze fish down ( I prefur fresh ) and there only 2 of use here to eat what I keep
most of my keepers are given away to famerly and frends

2/ I support what ever the DEPI has in there book on Size ,bag limits and closed seasons
they are the guys with the information on stocks , so are they are the guys to set the limits

…also I watched a youtube clip of a dude doing some beach-based shark-fishing in NSW and someone in the comments section bagged him out for being so under-gunned (and apparently lots do it); he basically lost 300m of braid plus the trace and hooks to the ocean (as the shark spooled him effortlessly) and apparently this is common. I can't say I'm keen on contributing to hundreds of metres of braid into the ocean…and I love my land based shark/game fishing, but always fish a bit over-gunned so to speak.

Plus I should mention the disgust that I've had since being back in the game and going to places like Portarlington pier/breakwater and the amount of rubbish tucked in the rocks. Disgraceful. Does this hobby really attract that many inconsiderate, mindless slobs? I'd like to think we are mostly environmentally aware, switched on stakeholders...

without seeing the clip it's hard to know - being under gunned happens I know of a couple of guys that have been spooled by sharks
one lost 500 meters of 50 lb braid and didn't look like slowing it or turning it
so he was under gunned on that fish where that much 50 lb braid would stop most fish he was likely the hook up

Rubbish being left behind is something that give us all the sh!ts - I dont land base much these days but we have all got to out spots and found the bottles, cans and just plain rubbish left behind

[ducky]

Quick answer to your question. If max sizes, closed season and any other restrictions were to be enforced and the reasons given made sense I'd happily abide by the rules. If it was changed for bull reasons I'd still abide but I wouldn't be happy about it.

Generally if I can catch my bag limit of certain species I will keep it. Eg whiting, snapper. If I catch a species I deem too small even though it may be legal I release it. Other species I generally find you don't need a bag. Eg gummys. If we are fishing 2 up we probably wouldn't consider keeping more than 2 gummys.

[frozenpod]

For local species we normally catch and keep the bag limit of legal fish.

Last weekend was a perfect example, caught and keep our bag both Saturday and Sunday.

All fish was eaten fresh and was finished by Tuesday night.

We buy more fish to eat than we catch so I don't have a problem with keeping a decent feed.

[FishnMiss]

I'm relatively new to fishing, basically since Jan 2013 (didn't fish winter - too soft maybe :cold: ).
Anyway I only keep what I can eat same day or within a day or two (except for my Elephant fish I caught a week ago and froze (ate it last night - see my recipe post :thumbsup: ).

I think everywhere I have been so far has litter. At Mornington pier generally it's a lot cleaner as there are bins and loads of people (but some Losers still litter).
Some times I pick it up, sometimes I don't have enough arms.

I stick to the DPI fishing rules & if I'm not sure I put em back.
I think the key in all things is moderation.
We have to buy food to eat so why shouldn't we be allowed to catch legal sized fish for eating as needed.

On a side note if DPI said no fishing in January everyone would probably just comply like little sheep.
I'm not sure if you noticed But Everywhere in our great country how we just roll over if a council, banks, govt etc say or do something then we all just go Baaaa yes sir/ma'am.
Yet generally we seem to have no problems sledging or bashing each other.

The Govt allows countries to overfish our oceans anyway.

Divided We Fall. ( Okay end of my Rant ).

[Cornacarpio]

I reckon just fishing for Carp is pretty ethical, considering I'm not crazy about eating fish...

This thread also reminds me of that Mark Zuckerberg guy 'eating only what he kills'...

http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/ ... -he-kills/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ChrisTaylor]

1. Is the legal limit something you think is ethically justifiable or do you keep fewer fish than you are permitted to out of your own sense of 'rightness'?

Surely that varies from individual to individual. I prefer fresh fish. If I went out tomorrow and caught a couple of decent-sized flathead I'd go home and be rather pleased with what I had. It's less an ethical issue than finickiness--well, okay, plain old unjustifiable snobbery--on my part. If I had more than a couple of fish I wouldn't get through them in the next day or two. I wouldn't want the meat to go to waste. Yet if I was feeding a larger group or got over my irrational view re: freezing fish, I'd see no issue in catching my bag limit. Someone, somewhere that I'd like to assume knows a lot more than me about such things--as opposed to someone in charge of pulling arbitrary numbers out of a lotto machine--set this figure as sustainable. Whether or not (s)he figured it'd be sustainable if people went and bagged out frequently ... well, I don't know. But it's not like many of us do that. And as much as it's a cop out re: an individual's responsibility for an individual's own actions, I suspect even the by-catch of commercial fishing and the damage caused by dredging and the release of pollutants into the bays would have a far greater impact--and pose a far greater ethical problem--than anything any one individual angler can do. Even the guy that drops his garbage everywhere and takes home postage stamp-sized pinkies.

2. Would you support more closed seasons and MAXIMUM size limits (as found in WA for e.g.) and tighter overall regulations if it meant that you would consistently catch more/better fish (I'm not saying it does or doesn't, but my experiences over there changed my views on fishing forever)?

Maybe. I guess I'd want to know that such a system would have a practical impact on fish numbers, fish 'quality' and the fishing experience. To me that's almost more of a practical issue than an ethical one. And again I question the impact (especially land-based) amateurs can have on anything.

I have heaps more, but this is a good start for me. If you want to talk around/about issues of catch and release vs. swift catch and kill for food or whatever else, please do…

I'm curious now where you stand on the issue of catch/release vs swift catch/kill for food (I already assume you'd prefer, say, ike jime to a drawn out process of flapping around in a bucket).