Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

purple5ive
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Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by purple5ive » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:15 pm

sandef wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:22 pm
and next paragraph states fish in a live well are considered contained and on the other page(84) unwanted fish must be released immediately

Yeah contained so part of the bag. As soon as an upgrade is caught is when the immediate release comes into play and one of the fish is released immediately.
What part of this isnt making sense?

The fish only becomes unwanted if the 6th fish is caught.

And as for the whole comp is over so the fish can be released now.
I rather that. Than all caught fish be killed.
Survival rate of released fish are pretty good with only a few fish going belly up. Each tournament I have personally witnessed this as well. Mainly yellowfin bream as they are a lot more fragile than the blacks.

When the weigh in is finished The fish are released into a a large holding cage in the river/lakes and slowly swim.out when they are ready...

As far as I'm concerned the tournaments are run well. I cant say what happens at other comps but I'm sure it's very similar..

purple5ive
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Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by purple5ive » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:16 pm

rb85 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:27 pm
purple5ive wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:49 am
Fish-cador wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:26 am
I prefer to wait for Kimtown's response.

Statement like "nobody catches more than 5" is bull.

Kimmo where are you?

:-))
Nobody I know has KEPT more than 5 bream in a comp.
Catching is a different story. Lots of fish dont even make it to the livewell.
Get your facts right before instigating WW3.
I can see people here are trying very hard to start another argument.
Keep trying buffoons.
Kimye is probably skating on thin ice with the warning count. So he is a smart cookie not to get involved.
Love a bit of passive aggression. Surely he’s still entitled to his opinion P5
Of course and I am entitled to my opinion. Simple as that...

rb85
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Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by rb85 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:18 pm

purple5ive wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:16 pm
rb85 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:27 pm
purple5ive wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:49 am
Fish-cador wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:26 am
I prefer to wait for Kimtown's response.

Statement like "nobody catches more than 5" is bull.

Kimmo where are you?

:-))
Nobody I know has KEPT more than 5 bream in a comp.
Catching is a different story. Lots of fish dont even make it to the livewell.
Get your facts right before instigating WW3.
I can see people here are trying very hard to start another argument.
Keep trying buffoons.
Kimye is probably skating on thin ice with the warning count. So he is a smart cookie not to get involved.
Love a bit of passive aggression. Surely he’s still entitled to his opinion P5
Of course and I am entitled to my opinion. Simple as that...
Off course you are.
No one has tried to stifle you out of the conversation.

purple5ive
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Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by purple5ive » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:20 pm

rb85 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:14 pm
On the flip side of whether competitors are breaking rules unwittingly most serious anglers respect the environment and catch even though the comps can become a d*** swinging contest for some seeking self validation by catching a fish.
Most guys are pretty good. And do the right thing.
Some catch sfa like we did the 2nd day. But I didnt go there to win a prize. I will fish comps if I have the time and money any day. You do learn a bit from.it. and it's almost a guranteed fishing trip away. And when it's a place like coota. It's really worth it

Bugatti

Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by Bugatti » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:41 pm

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We all have history, one part of my history was that I was a Prescribed Officer for a Government Department. Our role was to attend and resolve taskings, incidents, behaviourals, crashes, disruptions etc etc AND compliance, which meant we were required to interpret Gov Legislation, Gov Acts, Rules and Regulations and subsequently apply them to situations, incidents, events & issues at hand.


IMG_20181120_135340.jpg

ps. We weren't issued with Guns (I mean who'd trust me with a Gun :o_0: ) or Handcuffs (those Handcuffs in the picture were for personal use only , , , , for , , , , nocturnal entertainment :-D , , , , and yes, of-course with someone else , , , , and yes, yes, of-course with a lady , , , , I bat for only one team)


So, with that said, and in my opinion, and having an understanding of what the Fisheries Officers do , , , , my first thoughts are with those poor men and women who have to contend with this new "ill written" rule and the "flack" they are going to get from the general fishing community , , , , and this thread is testament to that.


Secondly on the title of this thread, "Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking" which is what this thread is about. To answer that question simply and concisely, of-course Bream Comps (and others) don't encourage rule breaking. The thought that a reputable organisation with-in the fishing community would encourage rule breaking is silly. Is this what things have come to , , , , we are turning on our own ????

These organisations and associations have additional rules on how to perform & behave, which is on top of the existing fishing regulations/rules. So of-course they try and do the right thing.

On trying to do the right thing , , , , as new rules come out, I'm sure they would adjust the way they set up Competitions.

And on that, with this new rule/rules they ARE allowed to replace "kept fish". Obviously for the purpose of competing, the "kept fish" would be replaced with larger fish.

The only "adjustment" I can see that needs to be done due to these new rules, by the Competition Organisers (using the competition that Steve took part in, as an example) is ensuring that the allowable "kept fish" amount remains at 5 (or a nominal figure below the regulated bag quota). AND that any replacements of "fish kept" (or as Steve put it "upgrades") don't exceed in total, including the "kept fish", the total bag quota for that specie.

That is , , , , for Bream , , , ,
with a kept tally of 5 fish, only 5 replacements can be made.
or
with a kept tally of 4 fish, only 6 replacements can be made.

This ensures that the total tally of "kept fish" for the day is your daily allowable quota.


So, Steve (P5) is correct, as are some other members too. AND for the record, I like both Purple5ive AND Kimtown, I'm not taking sides, I'm just stating the facts of how the rule is applied.


colnick wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:28 pm
This is getting a bit silly. I reckon the intention of the rule is clear. Unless you are actually holding the bag limit you can continue to catch until you get to the limit. Once there you have to stop, even if you subsequently release some of the held fish.
I appreciate that the wording is open to interpretation so why not ask Fisheries to clarify the issue rather than argue amongst ourselves?

That is right colnick , , , , a silly discussion on an ill-written rule that has caused confusion.

Hence my first statement. I feel for the Fisheries Officers who are going to have to deal with this rule , , , , even though, the Officers in question had (assume-ably) nothing to do with the wording.

Regards Bugatti

Bugatti

Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by Bugatti » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:42 pm

A simple explanation of the rules, as I see them.

"It is illegal to high-grade your fish
High-grading of fish involves a person who has caught and retained their daily catch limit of legal sized fish, but who then continues to catch more of that species, subsequently discarding the previously caught fish, dead or alive.

If you caught it, count it
Fish caught that are retained in live wells, catch-bags, eskies, buckets, any other container or given to someone else count towards your bag limit."


You have to see the new rules as a total , , , , not a snippet and then taken out of context of the intent of the rule. AND yes, it could have been worded better.


From what I can see, the new rules, both of them, are directly addressing "daily catch limits". When you have this ("daily catch limit") in mind when reading the rules (in conjunction with the multitude of fishing practises) it puts it into light of what the two rules are all about , , , , not exceeding your daily catch limit.


STARTING WITH THIS RULE:

If you caught it, count it
Fish caught that are retained in live wells, catch-bags, eskies, buckets, any other container or given to someone else count towards your bag limit."

(which, then this rule is what is applied to the above first rule of "high-grading", you can say that "high-grading" or the illegal activity of it, is based on this rule)

It would be first prudent to identify what a retained fish is.

A retained fish is a fish that you have consciously decided when on landing of that fish, to keep that fish, be it in an esky, live tank, bait , , , , what ever.

A caught fish or landed fish that you release immediately, due to any reason (undersized, unwanted specie, recreational "catch & release", etc etc) IS NOT a retained fish.



It clearly states, if you keep a fish (the word they use is "retain"), it counts towards your daily catch limit.

You may:
* use the fish as bait (but it still counts on your daily catch quota)
* do with it as the rule states, esky, live tank etc etc
* even if you give it away on the jetty/pier to someone, it still counts, JUST as it would count if you took it home and gave it to a neighbour.
* you can play soccer, using the fish as the soccer-ball till it is mutilated, do with it as what ever you wish (moral compass is another issue) but it still counts towards your daily catch quota.

* AND EVEN replacing a "kept fish" with an upgrade, which means, you have relinquished that "kept" fish as one towards your tally of your daily catch quota, the fact that you let that fish go is your choice but it doesn't give you that vacant spot back on your tally)

You can't use up catch quota up as bait, freebie giveaways, soccer-ball and then at the end of the fishing to still expect to go home with a quota, "topped up" because you used up part of it in some other manner.

Which is the basis of making it illegal to high-grade, once you have your quota but not illegal if you haven't reached/retained your quota yet. If you haven't got your quota, you can replace retained fish with bigger fish, but that released "retained fish" still counts towards your quota even though it is not in your bucket.

So in other words you can keep, retain only your daily catch quota.
Do with it as you wish , , , ,
*use it as bait, if it is a squid and you put a hook in it for a Kingie, then you can only take home 9 squid , , , , and so forth with every squid that you use for bait.
*if you are friendly and give it to the mate fishing next to you, then one comes of your daily catch quota.
*OR as Steve (P5) does, up-grade fish, but only to the residual of his daily catch quota


BOTH RULES, simply say , , , , you have a daily catch quota , , , , do with it which ever way you want , , , , you just don't get more.

Anyway, rant over, $17.25 worth there

Cheers, Bugatti

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Re: Do Bream Comps (and others) Encourage Rule Breaking?

Post by Wolly Bugger » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:47 pm

Everyone has had their say.

Firstly if you watch the professional bream comps they do up grade and this show is recorded in different states that may have different fishing rules.

The pros upgrade the fish out of their live wells,

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