Import or Local

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cobby
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Re: Import or Local

Post by cobby » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:35 pm

Sinsemilla wrote:
cobby wrote:
russellh2 wrote:Not sure what the average wage for a fitter and turner? $75k+p/a?...( I presume 2017) has to do with my original post.
FYI - I started as a First year Turning and Fitting Apprentice at Caterpillar Australia in Tullamarine on $Au24:00 per week, was a 40 Hours week in those days - Mid 1960's

Strange how we tend to drift "Off Subject".
Hardly off subject. As Drew said for a similar job, he wouldn't get out of bed for a 'measly' $75k p/a. Everything that is produced or imported and then on sold has to have that high wage factored in to it's sell price for the business/es to make a profit to continue trading. Anyone who wants to buy said product then demands a pay rise in order to pay bills, buy necessities etc, receives it, domino effect with rest of the workforce coupled with relatively low population density, insanely high weekend pay rate loading and we have what is affectionately known as the Australia tax. And then every so often on all sorts of hobby forums a topic is created where someone questions why they can import a knockoff blank from China for $6 when retail stores charge $15+ for a painted and packaged version. Sure, there's some industries that make an absolute killing from markups, the fishing industry on just about every facet including commercial fishing does not.
Mate what are you talking about? Saying some products you sell to just get your money back? Come on. You can buy these same lures that are $20 in tackle stores for half that off a jap site for the same lure. and the same goes with rods and reels. It doesn't cost $5 a lure to get over here. Everyone has bills and expenses. Not just the tackle industry
You're forgetting 1 whole component that for the most part isn't a factor in Japan. Distributor costs.

Using Megabass as an example. Megabass distribute to retailers locally (Japan) direct. Retailers pay whatever Megabass wholesale cost is, add their markup to cover their costs plus some profit and bang there's your retail costs (in Japanese yen) that you see on a website. Megabass only have to cover their costs with their profit margin, whatever sales taxes exist in Japan and that determines their wholesale cost to Japanese retailers. Small freight costs which is what you pay for your $150 worth of lures are tiny compared to commercial container loads and in majority of cases exempt from import taxes and GST.

To service the Australian market Megabass sell their products to Frogleys, the Australian distributor at a price. Frogleys then have to pay freight costs, then add any customs duties, GST, their own warehousing costs, staff costs, utilities costs and come up with a wholesale price to cover those costs and make a profit that retail tackle shops pay, plus the overpriced local shipping costs who then add their margins on which finally is what you pay in Australia. So the $5 extra a lure you pointed out gets chewed up fairly quickly.

Go see how many full time jobs are available compared to casual/temp/contract jobs on seek. It costs a business close to $900 a week to employ a full time employee on the $600odd minimum wage...

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ChrisD
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Re: Import or Local

Post by ChrisD » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:03 pm

My old man ran his own retail store - not fishing but I can understand how the local shop struggles compared to online trading.
I wonder how many who critise the costs at the local shop really understand the shops running costs. The time and effort put in, and how frustrating it gets having people at the counter complaining about the costs of product.
Can you get things cheaper online - yes of course you can
Can you get the level of back up when it goes wrong, the service/advice and just the touch and feel of the product online - no you can't
There has been plenty of times I have wanted to chase a new species or try a new location and it was the guys the local store (and on here :) ) that were the ones who got me rigged up, showed me knots, lures, how to load the hook, just gave good all round advice.
That is something the online shops don't give.
We all like to save a buck, and at times even I buy online, but I do prefer to walk into a shop and support local business whenever possible.

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Re: Import or Local

Post by Sinsemilla » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:13 pm

I understand the costs involved but it isn't my problem. I buy the product which i want at a competitive price. If you see something on the internet for half the price what would any person do? I too like to go into a shop and have a look at the gear and speak to some guys that know their stuff. Most guys are full of **** anyway these days at tackle stores. following you around.. pushing you to buy..
Businesses need to move with the times. Just like every other kind of business out there which has needed to change because of machines, computers or the internet. The tackle industry really cries loud about it though. Ford moved there factories overseas.. not that I'm saying it's a good thing but if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.

A tackle store I've been to a couple times but really try to steer clear of always goes off when i ask to fix up the price a bit. Even once saying well go to bcf to get it then.. which i did. Complaining about overheads.. freight.. how much it cost for him to buy toilet paper.. how he has to brush his teeth every morning and uses toothpaste so i should be covering that also.. yet there's an identical shop next door which is a fish and chip shop which has probably put there price up a couple bucks over 10 years. needs units for frying, hot plates for grilling, fridges for drinks, Stainless steel everywhere not to mention the the electricity, water and gas they use PLUS the servicing of these machines.. What tools and machines do tackle stores need again? Explain this to me.

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Re: Import or Local

Post by Wolly Bugger » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:54 pm

The winners in this game are the importers, as they operate a closed shop, preventing anyone else from competing with them.

Take books for example, once two importers controlled the trade, thus they were able to charge what they liked. There is an economic theory about how competition is suppose to lead to cheaper prices etc. It is obvious that this does not happen in Australia.

I know of one tackle shop that is not allowed to sell Shimano gear.

From memory there is a bit going around FB where companies like Microsoft and Apple, etc are telling their US customers to buy US products, however these products are manufactured in China, Mexico etc. Not to mention the efforts that they go too, to reduce the amount of taxation that they pay.

Sadly the rise of companies like BCF has seen the decrease in quality gear. I still have gear manufactured by Paddy Pallin.

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Re: Import or Local

Post by cobby » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:20 pm

Sinsemilla wrote:I understand the costs involved but it isn't my problem. I buy the product which i want at a competitive price. If you see something on the internet for half the price what would any person do? I too like to go into a shop and have a look at the gear and speak to some guys that know their stuff. Most guys are full of sh*t anyway these days at tackle stores. following you around.. pushing you to buy..
Businesses need to move with the times. Just like every other kind of business out there which has needed to change because of machines, computers or the internet. The tackle industry really cries loud about it though. Ford moved there factories overseas.. not that I'm saying it's a good thing but if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.

A tackle store I've been to a couple times but really try to steer clear of always goes off when i ask to fix up the price a bit. Even once saying well go to bcf to get it then.. which i did. Complaining about overheads.. freight.. how much it cost for him to buy toilet paper.. how he has to brush his teeth every morning and uses toothpaste so i should be covering that also.. yet there's an identical shop next door which is a fish and chip shop which has probably put there price up a couple bucks over 10 years. needs units for frying, hot plates for grilling, fridges for drinks, Stainless steel everywhere not to mention the the electricity, water and gas they use PLUS the servicing of these machines.. What tools and machines do tackle stores need again? Explain this to me.
Ford is the wrong analogy. They closed their manufacturing not their retail or wholesale arm and are controlled by the worldwide company.

For tackle shop prices on a lure to reduce everything must come down across the whole country, real estate prices and rents, shipping costs, wages etc, manufacturers to cut their worldwide distribution networks and sell direct to retail outlets in every country. No one in the distribution networks will want their companies to close. No one in the country will want their super and other investment returns to dimish, no state governments will want to lose valuable stamp duties associated with high real estate costs and not 1 single person will want to take a pay cut.


And wolly if it's the same shop I'm thinking of, 1 very prominent store owner threatened to pull Shimano out of their store if that particular 1 received any Shimano stock. Shimano bent over as quite a lot of sheep buy a lot of Shimano gear from said owners shop

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Re: Import or Local

Post by Lajon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:14 am

Wow.... so many people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about on this thread.

Do you really think the local distributor reps will cop seeing their products in a local store that they didn’t supply (ie: imported). That’s a great way to lose the ability to stock a big brand. Not to mention potentially get sued based on contracts or exclusive selling rights.

Anyone thinking the owners of these businesses are raking in cash should ask them what they bring home a month. Even better, ask the local tackle shop what he/she is making in June/July, I can tell you in most cases it’s much lower than the minimum wage over those months. most probably are under 50k a year.

Websites do help sometimes, but they cost more coin to setup, cash these little guys don’t have. Forget about EBay and the like. Add 9.9% fees + 2.9% Paypal (+30c transaction fee) to $50 store + incertion fees and now promotion fees to get items higher in rankings (up to 20% of sell price), all of this in a marketplace which sells under rrp keeps the little stores well away. Especially now that your big format stores are getting huge discounts on fees from eBay to be there. It means they can make even more off the same product selling it for 25% less than the local tackle shop.

Sure, some people are doing well and good luck to them, others will burn you on some items and take advantage of nieve buyers which is sadly just like any other industry. The retail industry as a whole is treading water at best and losing jobs consistently. Most of these people are only on 35-40k a year (myself included) and work nights, weekends and are forever under the dark clouds of job cuts or “renegotiating contracts” where you either obey demands or exit stage left. Most larger businesses also have clauses in all contracts that in certain circumstances 20% of your hours can be stripped bimonthly to accommodate extreme drops in trade.

For all of this, I am not saying don’t buy online - I get the sense in saving money wherever you can. But please don’t blame the little guys who are prepared to set up shop in the remote places that a BCF would scoff at. Coz when you get out there and are 40-60 mins from the closest large format store you’ll be happy to buy your bait or gear from the local guy who charges you 20% extra. If/when he disappeares I can guarantee you that there’s not going to be a big format tackle shop in there to replace him.

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Re: Import or Local

Post by yepi'mon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:31 am

I think a lot of people underestimate the cost of running a small business and the costs that can go with it.

Even more than that I think people underestimate the value of people's time.

When you go into a retail store you pay a premium for taking up peoples time. No one stands there and provides a service for fee.

If you are the guy who spends 20 minutes talking to a sales person and then walks away you have potentially cost that store $20+ dollars in time that they won't get back.

Take that into account when you ask for a discount and it's pretty obvious why small shops don't offer the discount.

I'm all for asking for a discount but don't get upset when someone doesn't oblige. You have no idea of the financial's behind the scenes.

If you don't want to pay the cost of advice and service, shop online. That's what it's there for.

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Re: Import or Local

Post by rb85 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:33 am

4liters wrote:
rb85 wrote:
4liters wrote:OTOH Japan isn’t exactly a third world country where you get paid a few dollars a week to assemble squid jigs, frequently it is cheaper to buy stuff straight from there rather than locally.

I’d argue that high wages are less of a problem than commercial rent and energy prices too; at least high wages increase buying power of consumers so there’s a chance the stores might get some of it back through the till
What’s manufactured in japan now?
Rent and power are a problem also to me it’s a combination of all these things.
Of course it's a combination. It isn't unavoidable though because there are Australian fishing tackle retailers who are making lots of money and who could afford to give consumers a better deal IF the industry wasn't so protective of the traditional stores and their inefficient business practices.
Im not saying the retailers are charging right or wrong but these retailers employ people such as Fishing Fever must have at least 5 blokes working there same as Compleat Angler Dandy they both do decent discounts time to time and the staff love fishing which means you can have a good chat get info learn something new. These people also have jobs due to these retailers.

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Re: Import or Local

Post by 4liters » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:18 pm

They'd employ even more people if they set themselves up with an online store and were racking up millions of $$ in sales like Motackle etc.

Forums, YouTube, blogs and social media have more or less made the whole 'local knowledge' thing redundant for a lot of people too.

The retail space has been changing rapidly since the early 2000s and the fishing tackle industry seems to have more than it's fair share of old school types who are unwilling or unable to change with the times. Even now I see plenty who would prefer to complain about the online stores rather than do anything proactive to improve their situation.
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Re: Import or Local

Post by mingle » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:14 pm

4liters wrote:They'd employ even more people if they set themselves up with an online store and were racking up millions of $$ in sales like Motackle etc.

Forums, YouTube, blogs and social media have more or less made the whole 'local knowledge' thing redundant for a lot of people too.

The retail space has been changing rapidly since the early 2000s and the fishing tackle industry seems to have more than it's fair share of old school types who are unwilling or unable to change with the times. Even now I see plenty who would prefer to complain about the online stores rather than do anything proactive to improve their situation.
Nailed it in one... :a_goodjob:

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