Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

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Rod Bender
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by Rod Bender » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:27 pm

Fish-cador wrote: I find it hard to remove a braid tangle on bait casters.
Whilst I had some problems early and had to cut line, I rarely have an issue now with untangling braid. Untangling knots on baitcasters is why I won't use mono! I would just be concerned with getting a sharp kink in the mono which may weaken the line. Funny how everyone has their different ideas all with some merit.
thanks
Jim
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TackleNut
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by TackleNut » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:08 pm

SteveoTheTiger wrote:Thanks for that Nick, you are right its pretty confusing. Especially when one type is rated by diameter and the others by strength.

Here is a question:

Do you guys always stick to braid these days or do you still use mono for certain situations?
Hi Steveo,

While braid is good to use mono absolutely has it's advantages and yes I still use mono for some of the tougher fishing situations (well I was and still would if I had been fishing lately, but that’s a whole new story).

Braid/Fused lines have only a tiny bit of stretch in them, so little that you can’t actually feel it when trying to stretch a metre of it, and it is very sensitive to the smallest bump or nibble on which the inexperienced braid fisho would normally strike if using a mono.
Many fish are lost because the fisho didn’t give the fish enough time to actually take the bait properly and have had the hooks pulled straight out of the fish’s mouths as well as a whole host of other issues that come with using braids and fused lines.

You won’t find many Big Game fisho’s using Braid/Fused lines as they don’t have anywhere near the amount of stretch needed to fight, sustain the fight and to tire the fish out and then land a big bill fish like a marlin. Fish like these aren’t small timid biters like a shut down sneaky bream or trout, these bugger will bite and charge off, basically hooking themselves and its up to you to keep them on and tire them out.
A line that can stretch and take the initial shock of being hit is you best friend in nearly all fishing. Even braid/fused line users do use some amount of mono/fluoro leader.
But back to the question in hand,

When fishing among rough snags area's like oyster leases and off rocks, mono wins hands down. Braid / Fused will let you down time and time again the moment it touches a sharpish object and the braid has any tension on it. Braids / Fused are very hard to break or cut especially when limp but put tension on it and all you have to do is stroke it against something sharp and bingo you have separation.

If I am snapper fishing out of a boat in PPB ( not the south end down towards the heads )then I normally use 2 bait rods that are loaded with approx 15-17lb mono and a 30lb leader. I do this because with so little current flow that the mono’s actually sink better in the water, where the braid/fused lines float and tend to tangle over each other.
Also sometimes I use a stained light brown mono line when fishing in the Yarra around rough/sharp areas.

When open flats fishing for Bream or Whiting here in PPB or down towards Lakes Entrance a thin mono or fluorocarbon are great to use as they have a better translucency / transparency and much harder for the fish to see than a braided or fused super line.
The braid/fused line instead of being translucent are actually solid colours in the water and will leave a shadow in daylight as well as standing out, that is were a long leader is needed or use just plain mono/fluoro
There are no Braid / Fused lines that are anywhere close to matching a fluorocarbon or good clear mono for its ability to blend into the water, as even the so called clear super lines line Fireline Crystal or Stren Microfuse are white lines.
( in fact, dyneema starts off as white and they are dyed to give the lines the colours that the fisho’s think they want, like various Greens or Yellows to the now more wanted Red & Orange colours because we as fisho’s love the marketing hype surrounding some of these new releases,)
I am sure there have been lots of us here that have had their braids lose colour and become white once again.
These days you can get some great mono’s that have just the right amount of stretch and much better abrasion resistance than the superlines.

In ending this long post, in conclusion yes mono is still used for many situations,

Tight lines,
Nick

ecofreak
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by ecofreak » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:03 pm

Nick a great insight in to the world of PE, when I was in Japan last I visited the Gosen factory and asked heaps of questions and got heaps of answers, however, my Japanese is crap and a lot was lost in translation, the one thing that I did get most of is the PE rating is not related to the weight nor is it related to the diameter, it has something to do with the original individual strant of the material used to make a weave, good braids will have very low PE numbers but have huge breaking strains because of the original individual strand. The squid braid I use is Gosen Egi First Class and its PE1 is rated to 18lb whilst the more affordable PE1 was rated at only 10 lb. I can not remember the exact phrasing but it was strand related notsize or weight related. The strands that they were using in the factory at the time of my visit were clear or opaque but when weaved they were white and all braids start of white until after the weave occurs, they are then dyed and then spooled. One other thing people should remember that cheap braids are woven fast and loose, these are the ones that cause you lots of dramas and most of the tangles and knots are caused by the unwinding of the line. When I get home from work I will put up a pic of a braid line machines working in a factory in Japan.
Regards Paul Carter
Gan Craft Pro Staff
http://www.egikuma.blogspot.com
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Rogue_Hunter
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by Rogue_Hunter » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:41 pm

Both types of material has its place in my setups. I use the braid on the main spool as it allows me to use smaller spools (reel) with more line due to the smaller diameter of the braid. I then use a albright knot or slim beauty to then attach my long shock leader to absorb the hit. However, trying to untangle a wind knot on braid at night with wind in your face is a Bit........!!!!

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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by Wolly Bugger » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:47 pm

Went into Gone Fishing and there is some PE braid with Japanese characters on the package at nearly $100 for 120 yards.

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Rogue_Hunter
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by Rogue_Hunter » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:52 pm

could be IGFA certified

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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by frozenpod » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:15 pm

TackleNut wrote: You won’t find many Big Game fisho’s using Braid/Fused lines as they don’t have anywhere near the amount of stretch needed to fight, sustain the fight and to tire the fish out and then land a big bill fish like a marlin. Fish like these aren’t small timid biters like a shut down sneaky bream or trout, these bugger will bite and charge off, basically hooking themselves and its up to you to keep them on and tire them out.
A line that can stretch and take the initial shock of being hit is you best friend in nearly all fishing. Even braid/fused line users do use some amount of mono/fluoro leader.
But back to the question in hand,
Tight lines,
Nick
Most people use mono in comps as braid is not IGFA legal.

As we don't fish comps and we use braid when game fishing.

Reasons being you can incrase capacity compared with mono and the thinner line has less resistance in the water ie less belly when the fish changes direction. It certainly makes it easier to follow the fish when there is 600m+ of line out not to mention better feel.

We do use a mono top shot and wind on leader. The mono topshot is for shock absorption as this makes it easier on the gear and anglar also some line resistance in the water can help tire the fish. The leader is typically 400lb fluro which has very little strech and it purely present for abrasion resistance.

This year I will be trying a lot shorter mono top shot for better feel and I if I have time I will try braid directly to the windon.

When bottom bashing we often switch between mono and braid depending on the situation. I also often add some extra mono in rough weather to braid ie 5m of mono when fishing in 20m as the strech helps keep the bait in the one spot so the fish can grab it.

Mono isn't dead but quality braid is excellent.

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Rogue_Hunter
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by Rogue_Hunter » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:24 pm

http://www.wellsystackle.com/sunshop/in ... ail&p=1061

These are not legal IGFA certified?

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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by frozenpod » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:10 pm

As far as I was aware there was no braid that was IGFA certified but it appears I am wrong/there now is.

ecofreak
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Re: Braids, Normal or PE Braids. There is so much confusion

Post by ecofreak » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:16 pm

Image

This is some of the inner workings of the Gosen factory in Japan, its only a snapshot of the floor. To the right is another 50 odd banks of machines and the same to the left each machine takes about 1 hour to make 1 meter hence the price difference to fast weave loose cheap stuff and tight slow weave expensive stuff. You can also see that the strands start transparent or closer to a metallic color before starting. Each color represents a PE quality as you can see in some cases a blend is used like with Castaway by sunline its part PE and part Nylon.

here is no such thing as IGFA rated and certified Braid, that said there are some line class records available by using braid, however, if you choose to fish 10kg line class you would need to send X amount of line of for break testing and if it breaks above 10 kg then you dont get your record, to date no one has managed to get a line class record on Braid, the same IGFA rules about leader length etcetcetc also apply.

Sorry about the image size
Regards Paul Carter
Gan Craft Pro Staff
http://www.egikuma.blogspot.com
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