Reels - Ball Bearings More or Less?

[Bartnmax]

I think there's a very relevent point there.
We all assume that when we buy a reel, that it has been set up properly by the manufacturer with all bearings properly lubed, etc.
That's not necessarilly the case.
Even more so with the cheapy reels.

As a mechanic I worked for years on 4wds & Prestige cars, etc.
Several years back, as I got older (the ground moves further away when working on cars/4wds) I got into outboards as well as servicing/repairing reels. Many times I have found that reels as received from the manufacturer (straight outa the box) have next to no lube, or in some cases absolutely none at all.

The upshot of this is that it is vital to check/lube your reel before using it for the very first time.

I'm also a learning custom knife maker & one thing I've been studying recently is metalurgy.
I can tell you now that there really is no such thing as 'stain FREE' steel. It doesn't exist.
There is 'stain resistent' steel, which we often to refer to as 'stainless' but it is not 100% guaranteed not to stain under the right circumstances.
What acts to resist the staining (oxidation/rust) is the Chromium content in the alloy.
To be considered 'stainless' it requires a minimum of 12% chromium content.
Many of the cheaper (read overseas produced) 'stainless' steels have far less than 12% chromium content & as such they most definitely will stain (rust) given the right circumstances.
So the cheaper the bearings, the greater surety that they will rust, so adequate lubrication PRIOR to use is absolutely essential.

[frozenpod]

Yep I agree.

I always pulled down reels and lube them before use even top quality reels. The manufactures simply don't lube them correctly for long life.

On that note I have also purchased cheaper reels which were the same as there more expensive models apart from the quality of bearings and drag washer. After 12 months when the bearings were dieing I repalced them with top quality units and have had a good reel for 5 plus years since.

[davjak]

This whole topic has turned upside down what I thought was a good to bad reel in relation to ball bearings and what to look for..

I've just started in the last year to take fishing seriously.. I have gone from the no name brand equipment to semi decent name brand gear like shimmano.. depending on the best item I can get for the $ I have at the time..

It seems to be in most cases the price of a rod is equivalent to its price, where as the price of a reel is not always equivalent to quality

[frozenpod]

Most reels from the big brands offer pretty fair quality vs the price.

You just need to buy them from a good tackle store at fair price, or on special ect so that you are not being ripped off.

[shooto]

bartmax

I am an engineer and have studied basic Metalurgy, the problem is this that stain resistant steels (Stainless Steels) don't make the best bearings.

A guy once said to me my knife is better than your knife, as he placed a magnet on my folding knife a (Benchmade) my blade was made out of ATS 34, which i think is a Austenitic stainless, which contains a fair bit of carbon for edge retention and the magnet stuck to it.

The guy i was talking to thought my blade was cheap and that it would rust etc etc, but he was wrong big time but i could not be bothered explaining it to him.

Why i mention this is that bearings in reels need some form of corrosion resistance due to the environment that they are used in, and the fact is that reels don't and won't get serviced at proper intervals.

Best bearings are not made out of stainless steels, so it is a compromise just like blade steel stock i could go on forever but will stay on topic.

davjak

As some one mentioned up top basic bushes are better than cheap bearings more simpler easier to service like the old abu 7000 conventional overhead with the brass bushes.

Good bearings obviously are better than cheap bearings and bushes

I am trying or i should say we are trying to stay on topic but with engineering you open up a can of worms and you have to get a little technical here and there.

My little cheap chinese reel as an example cost $20.50 on fleabay has less play in the rotor housing than my $300 daiwa it is not as smooth the body is not as strong but as my old teacher that worked in the aviation industry (Boeing to be exact) had the best word for it is the product fit for the purpose it was intended for, it is not about what you pay for an item.

It is obvious that a 20 vs 300 real is a no brainer but the little 20 dollar reel will do its job etc i hope i am helping here or i am wasting my time.

So it goes like this the 300 reel has a diecast aluminium body and it needs it for the big drag bigger physical size of the reel more capacity etc etc but the little reel is a Carbon Graphite ABS plastic but for the intended purpose it does not need the alloy as it is smaller size therefore stiffer etc.

So as everything in life fit for the purpose is the ideal questions like these
Where are you going to fish rocks, beach,piers,boat
How often are you going to go fishing
How much fish do you actually catch (I am yet to test the drag on my relatively expensive reel for an example)
Do you look after you equipment or do you bang it around and it goes on and on

Spending big is the easy way out you don't need to know anything just buy the best or expensive reel and the chances it will be very good.

The skill is in finding good gear for value

Unfortunately you have to take some form of risk buying stuff from ebay etc so unless you can see and feel the item in person you could be buying a lemon.

When you are experienced you make an educated guess or if you are less experienced you ask questions etc

hope it helped as i am trying to help.

[Bartnmax]

bartmax

I am an engineer and have studied basic Metalurgy, the problem is this that stain resistant steels (Stainless Steels) don't make the best bearings.

A guy once said to me my knife is better than your knife, as he placed a magnet on my folding knife a (Benchmade) my blade was made out of ATS 34, which i think is a Austenitic stainless, which contains a fair bit of carbon for edge retention and the magnet stuck to it.

The guy I was talking to thought my blade was cheap and that it would rust etc etc, but he was wrong big time but I could not be bothered explaining it to him.

Why I mention this is that bearings in reels need some form of corrosion resistance due to the environment that they are used in, and the fact is that reels don't and won't get serviced at proper intervals.

Best bearings are not made out of stainless steels, so it is a compromise just like blade steel stock I could go on forever but will stay on topic.

Yeah I agree entirely that the best bearings aren't necessarilly stainless, but stainless is almost mandatory with regard to reels when talking bearings due to the problem of corrosion. However, there's stainless & there's stainless (as you're no doubt aware) & the cheaper stainless bearings are often anything but. Inferior to better quality stainless due to corrosion & inferior to good carbon steel bearings due to bearing quality. All they are good for is often saving the manufacturer (usually some back-alley PRC copy company) a few bucks at the expense of anglers.

The problem is that if you want good bearings you usually have to pay for a good reel.
If you want to purchase a budget reel chances are you'll get cheaper bearings to go with it.
In those situations it's also a pretty sure bet that the manufacturer of that cheapy reel won't have lubed the bearings (or other components) properly during assembly, so it is vital to do so before use. Otherwise it's almost guaranteed that at some stage the bearings witll chuck it in. You can replace the cheapy bearings with better abec 5s or 7s but the question then has to be raise "is the reel worth the cost of doing so?"

Interesting that you mention the use of AST34 in your knife.
It has a 12.2% chromium content & so is classified as 'stainless' but is also magnetic due to the high carbon content.
I'm involved in custom knife work & use a fair bit of AST34 & it is generally regarded as an exellent steel for knives.
In fact a great many custom knife makers use it due to it's it's ease of working & good edge holding attributes.
Here's one I recently made with an ATS34 blade.

Sorry for jumpin off topic a bit there at the end.

[frozenpod]

Bill that is really nice mate.

Do you know the the HRC is?

[davjak]

i hope i am helping here or i am wasting my time.

Most certainly helping shooto :thumbsup:

I've found myself pretty lucky with most of my equipment, got a lot of reasonably expensive equipment from sometimes 50-75% off sales.
Kept my eyes peeled for bargains. One of my favourite rods is a $39 Shimano Eclipse 1-3kg rod, which I think feels much better quality than my $300 rapala 2-4kg rods

[shooto]

Bartnmax

Very nice knife, it looks useful, looks like it would effective for skinning as well

Yeh ATS 34 is a good blade steel, Benchmade was one of the first companys to use it, i think now a lot of them are using vg10 if i can remember correctly,the best steels are most likely the tool steels for edge retention and toughness, there is a video of someone cutting a 44 galon steel drum, and the edge not folding over, i can't remember the code for the steel but it is a tool steel there is also cpm steels etc.

What is the handle made of on that custom knife

Back on subject yes the best bearings would be hardened steel or now they are making ceramic ones which i believe will be making there way on high end reels soon.

davjak

I have very high praise for Shimano rods they have a lot of excellent people behind the design of them Steve Starling, Ian miller etc

But because they are mass produced they are very good value for an example i have a 10 ft overhead backbone elite and i would not sell it for the world, price was 129.00 but they had a sale where i purchased from i picked it up for 79.00 it's a great rod very nice action and very light blank.

I just keep going back to that 10ft rod for everything spinning for sambos,surf fishing,rockfishing even though it is designed for an overhead i also use my old daiwa loncast on it and can still cast 100m with those tiny guides and extra friction.

I can't comment on the rapala rods as i know nothing about them, who makes them for rapala.

I am testing a small cheap chinese real at the moment and so far it is very positive

[Bartnmax]

Yeah ceramic bearings are becoming more & more accepted but they don;t offer a lot better performance to abec 7 steel bearings IMO so unless they can be sourced cheaply I can;t see the extra justification in using ceramics unless it's for tourament reel use.

The handle on the knife is green micarta with a red spacer between the scales & guard.
Hardness is between 60 -61 Rockwell.