Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Trout, Redfin, Salmonoids, Carp etc
smokin_reels
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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by smokin_reels » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:31 am

frozenpod wrote:If the virus is being developed works carp will die off.

Removing 1 carp does nothing, but removing 300,000 plus carp does.
The Virus will most definitely help and work.
The Potential pitfalls in this plan.

Things to consider :-

- Dead Carp Everywhere. There is only so much yabbies and shrimp are going to be able to consume within a short time frame. There is bound to be wide spread rot.
- Sudden loss in a primary food source for Native Fish, such as Murray cod that have gotten used to munching on carp.
- Depreciation in water quality, decomposition could make a black water like event real.
- Redfin Population explosion , with no carp to consume eggs and disturb nests. More Piscevorous than carp, where does this leave native fish?
- Containment . We release the virus in one part of the system , it will spread. There is going to be little control once we set this lose.
- the temperature range at which the virus is going to work. Trout streams that have carp in them as well, may not fall into the working range of the virus , throughout the range.
There is always more to learn , fish to catch , places to see and friends to make.

Kadmium
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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Kadmium » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:59 pm

Just to chip in my 2c.

Forum runs on "Premium Membership" but then a mod decides that "Premium Membership" means nothing. Talks about not airing feed back but then stated "I knew I would get a hit just wondered who it would be"

Are you serious?

I can see now paid membership means nothing on this site. It's Wollys Way or the Highway. Well I can guarantee I will be voting with my wallet. Consider this the last time I cough up for a site that's run as a dictatorship instead of an open forum of adults. Don't be surprised if I get banned for this post.
Species Comp 16/17

Salt: KGW 36cm - Squid 35cm - Salmon 22cm - Flathead 34cm - EP 35cm - Total Salt 162cm

Fresh: Carp 55cm - Total Fresh 55cm

TOTAL : 217cm

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by purple5ive » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:16 pm

Guys, calm the F@#$& down.whats with all this moderator bashings.
it takes a lot of work to do what a mod does, and site is not run just with the premium mebership $$$$ lots more going on behind the scenes which many of us dont know about for sure.
anyway somehow this thread has derailed into a moderator discussion,

ps - if i was moderator all shimano users will be banned instantly :rofl: :rofl:

also with the carp thing, i think quite a lot of opinions will be different if they tasted Nice.
i personally dont think anglers will be able to eradicate them, let alone put a dent in their population.
i dont like killing any fish that i dont take home, hence why i have never fished for carp.

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Kadmium » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:26 pm

In regards to carp

1. I personally don't think killing them makes a huge difference. They are so abundant that there will never be a complete eradication of them.

2. Virus is ok but look at Myxo. Still plenty of rabbits about just messed up with birth defects. And now they are on to Calisi virus.

3. Who guarantees that the virus will target carp only?

4. They cannot force you to kill an animal. They can try to fine you but it will not hold up in court.

My opinion only.
Species Comp 16/17

Salt: KGW 36cm - Squid 35cm - Salmon 22cm - Flathead 34cm - EP 35cm - Total Salt 162cm

Fresh: Carp 55cm - Total Fresh 55cm

TOTAL : 217cm

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Truedogz » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:56 pm

Kadmium

It absolutely would stand up in court:

Fisheries Act 1995

76 Offences concerning prohibited noxious aquatic
species
Unless authorised under this Act, a person must
not bring into Victoria or take, hatch, keep,
possess, sell, transport, put into any container or
release into protected waters any aquatic species
that is declared to be noxious under section 75.

87 No penalty if noxious aquatic species specimen is
killed immediately
Despite anything to the contrary in this Division,
if a person who takes any thing that is declared to
be a noxious aquatic species immediately kills it,
the person is not liable to any penalty under this
Division.

When you buy a fishing license you are entering into a legally binding contract to agree to those conditions. If you don't want to kill carp don't fish in waters containing carp.

It is there in black and white that if you catch one you must kill it.

I disagree with you that anglers can't have an impact - I've seen first hand where they have. You are correct that we won't totally eradicate them but the virus has a good chance of keeping numbers much lower. In many areas they are now lower than what they were 30 years ago probably due to predation by large native fish.

Best Wishes

Truedogz

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Kadmium » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:04 pm

Truedogz wrote:Kadmium

It absolutely would stand up in court:

When you buy a fishing license you are entering into a legally binding contract to agree to those conditions. If you don't want to kill carp don't fish in waters containing carp.

It is there in black and white that if you catch one you must kill it.
I'mnot a lawyer but pretty certain there is no "contract" that you enter. Does that mean if I had no licence I don't have to kill them?

It's a summary offence. Just like there is a law stating that if you walk more then 3 greyhounds at one time you are commiting an offence. Please show me the legislation which states that vegetarians or even objectors to harm and violence cannot fish. If you really think a magistrate would give you a punishment for refusing to kill an animal then you have a very harsh view of the justice system. People can go about bashing in peoples heads and rioting in prison and all they get is free pizza. I refuse to kill an animal for no reason and get a 10k fine? Don't think so.

Just my 2c and I am not being abusive towards you etc. Just a healthy discussion.
Species Comp 16/17

Salt: KGW 36cm - Squid 35cm - Salmon 22cm - Flathead 34cm - EP 35cm - Total Salt 162cm

Fresh: Carp 55cm - Total Fresh 55cm

TOTAL : 217cm

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Truedogz » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:39 pm

Kadmium

It actually is a contract (that's why you sign your name) - or if you wish you can interpret it as a permit - and it has conditions. You sign it, you agree to the conditions. Same with a driving license, you sign it, you agree to the conditions. The Fisheries Act 1995 explicitly states that:

53 Offence to fail to comply with licence or permit
conditions
(1) The holder of a fishery licence or a permit must
comply with any condition to which the licence or
permit is subject.

Under the act those people buying commercial fishing licenses have contract rights and can enter into other contracts. So the broad interpretation is signing the license has contractual obligations.

Its no defense saying you disagree with the conditions once you sign.

The crown owns all fish in Victoria - the license provides transfer of ownership under the conditions. You accidentally catch a carp you become the new owner! :rofl:

The section on noxious says 'a person' - so having a live noxious fish is an offence whether you have a recreational angling license or not unless you are issued a specific license to have one.

I agree with your sentiments about the courts:
2eb4792456e3a6996c3a9328329bd74c.jpg
2eb4792456e3a6996c3a9328329bd74c.jpg (83.07 KiB) Viewed 1208 times
Truedogz

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Delirium » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:46 pm

Kadmium wrote:
Truedogz wrote:Kadmium

It absolutely would stand up in court:

When you buy a fishing license you are entering into a legally binding contract to agree to those conditions. If you don't want to kill carp don't fish in waters containing carp.

It is there in black and white that if you catch one you must kill it.
I'mnot a lawyer but pretty certain there is no "contract" that you enter. Does that mean if I had no licence I don't have to kill them?

It's a summary offence. Just like there is a law stating that if you walk more then 3 greyhounds at one time you are commiting an offence. Please show me the legislation which states that vegetarians or even objectors to harm and violence cannot fish. If you really think a magistrate would give you a punishment for refusing to kill an animal then you have a very harsh view of the justice system. People can go about bashing in peoples heads and rioting in prison and all they get is free pizza. I refuse to kill an animal for no reason and get a 10k fine? Don't think so.

Just my 2c and I am not being abusive towards you etc. Just a healthy discussion.
And in the same sense of healthy discussion, there is a difference between not 'standing up' in court and not being pursued by a authorities or not having the recommended punishment handed down by the court. To not stand up would mean that it has been tested and couldn't be determined to have broken a law under the act. If everyone involved 'chose' to pursue it to the word of the law, it would well stand up.

Cheers

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by laneends » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:54 pm

I think they would come down on you rightly if you transport or introduce into a location something from elsewhere ie your actions have a negative impact. If you simply leave things as you found them, they would be pushing things on a technicality in a court of law. The intent of the law is the former not the latter, it would seen as a waste of court time

You are simply passing on the chance to have a positive impact. The debate on how effective that impact makes being a separate issue, which was the original topic of this thread.

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Re: Does anglers killing carp make any difference?

Post by Truedogz » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:16 pm

The great irony of all this is that the Victorian Fisheries and Game Department in 1960 tried to stop a farmer at Boolara before they ever got out. They took it to court and lost! :(
carp & court.JPG
They subsequently changed the legislation to make it watertight but in the interval they were sold around Victoria and into NSW leading to the disaster we have today.

Having live carp in ones possession has been tested in court a number of times and has held up, even when people don't have a fishing license. Of course, magistrates can hand out a slap on the wrist.


Truedogz

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