Two Nights Chasing Cod

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Truedogz
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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by Truedogz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 pm

Paulanderson wrote:Hi Will the hybrid Murray/Trout Cod you mentioned - would that likely have been stocked that way or does that mean the Murray and Trout Cod are actually inter-breeding in the river where you were fishing?
Hi Paul.

Where the two cod species naturally occur together low levels of hybridisation appear to have always existed - the old timers talked about it - and were recorded fairly early on when they began to naturally recover in the Murray River from the mid 1970s onwards. The translocation population in Cataract Reservoir is dominated by hybrids so it has been speculated that reproductive isolating mechanisms between the two species break down more readily under marginal conditions.

Until recently only F1 hybrids have been found in the wild so it was assumed they were sterile. That changed recently with the discovery of F2 hybrids in the upper Murrumbidgee, an avoidable man made mess. The historical evidence is that upstream of the gorge at Tharwa trout cod were the prevalent cod species with Murray cod being scarce (computer models based on the Murray River say otherwise!). Trout cod became extinct up there during the 1980s and from the mid 1990s a fair number have been stocked - without much success. That was quite predictable as the river is badly silted and the river deprived of flow by Tantangara Reservoir - the factors that exterminated them in the first place. Anyhow, NSW Fisheries a few years ago stocked Murray cod into the sub-alpine streams flowing into the area for angling. I argued against it, suggesting trout cod be stocked as that was within their former range and outside that of Murray cod at least in any numbers. They ignored that for the usual trout cod are endangered blah blah blah reasons. Obviously there were trout cod in the bidgee and swamped with the Murray cod moving downstream combined with a shortage of mates they have crossed and the hybrids appear to be fertile.

Another mess is in the upper Murray River above Lake Hume. This received a few small trout cod stockings in the late 1980s and established a small breeding population - I confirmed that as I had one angler send in data about his captures and you could see the small recruits coming through as cohorts. Then about fifteen years ago a Murray cod stocking program started up there. They ignored the idea of stocking trout cod there for angling and did not even consider a 1:1 stocking of the two species. The population there is going extinct as the trout cod have been swamped by the Murray cod with the result that most of the juvenile 'trout cod' are now hybrids. The response of the experts is the trout cod are primarily a lowland fish and were never really common up that way. They bang on about not allowing the stocking of trout cod for angling because they are endangered but are happy to let a population go extinct when it doesn't fit in with their narrative. :(

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Truedogz

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by drew 2 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:13 pm

Great work fella's,you two are killing them this year :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cheers: :cheers:

Will,over the last 20 years or so in the bits of river we fish between toc and picnic point,we've noticed the trout cod seem to be spreading out and growing in size further down towards the top of the barmah lakes. We seem to catch the odd "mongrel' looking one a bit more often,which sometimes leads to a bit of a "debate" over what it is amongst us.Thanks for the info mate :thumbsup: I will see if a mate still has a pic of a 65cm model he caught a few years back.Went like hell when hooked. Had the head of a trouty and the body markings of a murray.Had us stuffed as to what it was.Was thrown back. It still comes up in campfire conversations to this day after a few beers.

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by Paulanderson » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 pm

Nothing worse than a bunch of expert fisheries biologists and managers when reality does not agree with their theories. They also seem completely blind to historical records - again when the records conflict with their ideas. Thanks for the info.

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by Truedogz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:56 pm

Paulanderson wrote:Nothing worse than a bunch of expert fisheries biologists and managers when reality does not agree with their theories. They also seem completely blind to historical records - again when the records conflict with their ideas. Thanks for the info.
The computer models are based on the trout cod population downstream of Yarrawonga. They were historically common in that area but surveys in the 1940s recorded they were secondary to Murray cod. No one seems to have considered that for a species that favours fast flowing water that a constant flow of irrigation water might have enhanced conditions for them.

By contrast the population in the Seven Creeks, translocated in the 1920s, survives in rocky upland conditions but is regarded as an anomaly as it is translocated. The fact that they survived and thrived there until recently indicates what they can handle. It is illogical to say that trout cod can't handle upland conditions because the stockings in foothill and upland areas, mostly short term and small, didn't work. Many of those habitats have changed; if it wasn't for that the species wouldn't be endangered! Another factor might be that all the brood stock used in the breeding programs comes from the Murray River and not the Seven Creeks - so you have fish selected for lowland conditions.

Dogma and ideology rule and prevent further progress. My heart is broken over what has happened to the Seven Creeks over the last 40 years - the distribution of maccas has declined by 2/3 and that of trout cod by a half and those outcomes come directly from the actions/inactions of government agencies. I cherish the memories of how it once was.

Best Wishes

Truedogz

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by Truedogz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:02 pm

drew 2 wrote:we've noticed the trout cod seem to be spreading out and growing in size further down towards the top of the barmah lakes. We seem to catch the odd "mongrel' looking one a bit more often,which sometimes leads to a bit of a "debate" over what it is amongst us.
They've been caught all the way to about 30 km downstream of Torrumbarry in recent years, usually in the faster water. As to the hybrids they regularly turn up in the Murray, but are not common. Would be less than 1%.
Boonanza wrote:Nice work fellas I'm going to have to give these surface lures a try on the cod trip
I should get up there Friday evening so if you want I can go out with you Saturday morning and see if you can nail one. Even if you don't land one but get boofed wou will enjoy it! :super:

Best Wishes

Truedogz

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by drew 2 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:05 pm

That one did come out of some faster moving water will.

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by Millzee » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:39 pm

Good stuff, they must have been on the chew with so many showing interest, well done.

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Re: Two Nights Chasing Cod

Post by Boonanza » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Boonanza wrote:Nice work fellas I'm going to have to give these surface lures a try on the cod trip
I should get up there Friday evening so if you want I can go out with you Saturday morning and see if you can nail one. Even if you don't land one but get boofed wou will enjoy it! :super:

Best Wishes

Truedogz[/quote]

Thanks for the offer Will sounds like a plan mate :thumbsup:
A smart person knows what to say. A wise person knows whether to say it.

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